Feb 23
The Stevesbets Guide to Etiquette
Living in a place as packed as New York City leads to many issues, among them is how we should all treat each other in various venues. The way that many behave is outrageous and I think thats due to the fact that with no penalties governing socially conscious or appropriate behavior, they see no reason to follow any sort of rules. Additionally the set of rules does not exist, so I have set out to create some that I hope will stick.
Movies:
Talking is permitted in movie theaters before the movie begins and also in a small amount during trailers. The level of talking during the trailers depends on whether the lights are turned out before they begin or after they end. As a general rule of thumb, if you never utter a word in a movie theater after the lights go out then you are doing the right thing
Things not permitted during the movie are:
-talking for anything but emergencies, going to the bathroom more than once (when it provides substantial difficulty to others for you to get out)
-texting (this is maybe the most annoying thing people do)
-Laughing in an obnoxiously loud and annoying manner particularly at things that aren’t funny (this should be prohibited in nearly all walks of life but especailly at movies)
-Oooohing and aaaaahing excessively or otherwise making sounds effects concerning what is happening in all but the most unavoidable instances
-Answering a phone call (I can’t really fathom what would compel someone to talk on the phone during a movie without at least attempting to leave the theater first)
-Worst of all, creating a far worse disruption by loudly arguing with someone who you want to quiet down. I really believe some form of these rules should be enforced since everyone pays for a ticket and those who are appropriate do not deserve to be punished.
Elevators:
Do not feel compelled to hold an elevator door for someone who is far away and taking their time. Further, if someone else is in the elevator with you, it is rude to do so. I am always befuddled particularly at places like Borgata where each elevator bank has 6 lightning fast elevators and yet people still feel compelled to hold elevator doors for people 30 feet away instead of just letting them get the next one. Why is the person trying to reach the elevator more important than the people you are holding up by holding the elevator door? EXCEPTION: If you are alone on an elevator and a blind person is coming who may have trouble pushing the button on his own then you are compelled to take the extra time to wait and assist. This will rarely if ever happen.
In accordance with the last statement, do NOT expect the elevator door to be held for you particularly if you are slowing lumbering towards it. Sometimes people give a bit of a snarl if the door isn’t held for them when they made no good faith effort to get to the elevator more quickly in recognition of someone waiting for them, this is outrageous.
If someone does hold the door for you, do make an effort to approach more quickly while quietly acknowledging to yourself that you really do not expect them to hold the door for you but since they are you will return the small “kindness” with a bit of effort.
When in the elevator space out appropriately. As a general rule there should be an equal amount of space between all people on the elevator and MOST people naturally gravitate in a way that make that happen. Certain individuals who are particularly objectionable to stand near do not get this convention and will stand basically touching you in an elevator with only you and he on it, this is unacceptable.
Doors:
No one has a right to have a door held for them, if someone does hold the door for you, you should thank them. If someone does not hold the door for you, do not get angry, it is not an inalienable right. If someone is carrying too much for them to handle and they are immediately behind you then you should hold the door for them in the name of decency but they nevertheless do not have the right to get angry at you if you do not.
Babies:
Do not take them to late or serious movies where they will be disruptive. Do not take them to fancy restaurants. Do not expect elevator doors to be held for extra long periods so a toddler can crawl in (this one should have been covered in the elevator section).
Dogs:
Keep them on a leash at all times in public(I think this one may be law). Do not assume that everyone likes them just because you do.
Biking:
There is not exactly etiquette on this one but my own personal opinion is you need to be pretty crazy to bike on the streets of new york city. When I drive around here the bikers constantly seem in imminent danger. Traffic is nuts and you never know which way cars are going to swerve. According to the law it will always be the cars fault if there is an accident between bike and car, but I nevertheless do not understand the bikers casual indifference to their own life. I would think even if they wont be legally accountable in an accident, their body would feel accountable and therefore they would obey traffic lights, go slowly and carefully etc. They simply do not, it is psychotic
Subways:
Can’t help you here, it’s a free for all
Restaurants:
Keep volume level reasonable for the given venue. Rule of thumb: if someone sitting in the middle of the restaurant if they would hear your words clearly and the rest of the restaurant is white noise to them, you are speaking too loudly.
If you are done and there are many people waiting for tables, give up the table. This does not apply somewhere like a sports bar where you go for the whole game or for coffee shops where the very nature of the business encourages lingering.
If there are any other topics you would like the definitive rules of etiquette on, submit them as comments and I will try to address them.
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:12 am
Live in NYC as well.
-I work on Wall St in a building where the doors are altogether too heavy, and close violently when you let them go. I always hold the door for people if they are within 3-5 paces of me, sometimes more. I do not get upset if people do not do this for me.
-Recently I was in an elevator and apparently I didn’t follow the spacing guidelines you posted, unknowingly standing too close to the guy behind me. The gentleman behind me gave me a light hand on my back; I realized I was too close and moved away. Duly noted.
Etiquette that I have to add as a New Yorker…Don’t know how long this list will be, but it’s the slowest day at work in a long time, so we’ll see.
Walking in the city:
1) never ever walk more than 3 abreast. I hate this and if you do you are probably a tourist and should expect a shove or at least a sneer.
2) walk in a straight line. you’d expect most people to do so, but nothing is more annoying than walking much faster than someone, passing them close on the right or left and that person all of a sudden decides to amble off the straight path directly into you.
3) feel free to jaywalk wherever whenever as long as a car does not have to slow down for you.
Driving in the city:
1) cutting people off is a right in NYC. Cars are packed in, its constant traffic. If you’re slow or lazy, you give up your spot in traffic. You do NOT have a right to get upset at (me) the driver UNLESS i force you to slam your brakes.
2) if you take up two lanes, I have a right to be be upset with you. Proper etiquette in showing your anger with another driver is to make eye contact, shake your head, and mumble curse words at them. It is never appropriate to open windows to yell curses or for that matter to give someone the finger. Point is to show your displeasure with the driver’s actions, not to start an actual fight.
3) if you are passing a bike rider going in the same direction as you particularly on a narrow side street, you SHOULD chirp your horn to let the rider know about your passing.
Subway etiquette:
1) if you are in a crowded car by the door when the train enters the station, you MUST exit the car and allow people to exit around you. If you do this correctly, you should be the first in line to reenter. If you don’t do this, you will likely be pushed out anyway.
2) if you are in the middle of a crowded car, plan one station ahead for your exit. if you don’t you will find it frustrating and difficult to exit as throngs enter.
3) seats on subway cars are first come first serve. however, ties +/- ~2 seconds always go to women.
4) if there is a blind person on the subway, you SHOULD help them. Ask he/she is going, and point him/her in the right direction. If you go out of your way to help him/her, you will feel great having done so for the rest of the day, maybe longer.
Cab etiquette/convention
1) you look stupid if you are hailing a cab holding your arm up waiting for one to show up. Realize that if a cab is open, the “2L35″ will be lit, but not the off duty sign (this should be obvious but you’d be surprised) Generally, eye contact and a raised finger is enough to stop a cab. See if you can stop a cab with just eye contact and a nod. should work if you’re white.
2) depending where you are, sometimes an off duty cab will stop for you. he will open the window, you say the general direction you are going. it must be in the same direction the cab is already going and fairly local. thank the driver for stopping for you and tip well.
3) if you and another are looking for a cab on the same corner, (if and only if the person is of similar social strata as you…) ask what neighborhood he/she is going, and if its convenient, ask to share. If you are dressed well / look smart, you will not be turned down, and you save a few bucks. The exception is in the financial district where you will be turned down.
i should get back to work, but i’d like to see steve if you agree/disagree with these rules
February 23rd, 2009 at 11:25 am
Good post by wally here, I agree with pretty much all of them though i don’t know how i feel about honking at a bike even if it is for their own good, I was taught never to do this. I particularly agree with the comments about walking. I walk very fast and i find it very bothersome when 4 people are spread out blocking the whole sidewalk and walking quite slowly.
February 23rd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
So let’s say you’re in the elevator with two women (that you don’t know). You are all going to the lobby and the doors open…..do you walk out of the car first?
February 23rd, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I would say if somehow we are all equidistant from the door then I would allow the women to exit first but in the far more likely scenario that we are in different spots in relation to the door then we should go in the most efficient fashion which is in order of closeness to the door
February 23rd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
And in my world of etiquette, that would be considered rude. Sorry. BTW, when you are with a girl, do you not open the door for her? Just wondering.
February 23rd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Agreed about honking at a biker. I have never biked in the city, but if I did I’d be pissed if someone leaned on the horn behind me.
What I meant was a horn “chirp” which is basically the absolute minimum sound you can make with the horn. This shouldn’t startle a biker at all, but give him a sense of your position and intention behind him. And I’ll only do this if its on a narrow sidestreet and I’m unsure if I can safely pass prechirp.
Speaking of horn etiquette, I have my own style.
1) if i get cut off and I’m forced to stand on the brake, my convention is one long horn blast maybe about a second long
2) if i’m speeding down a sidestreet about 45 trying to make a light and there’s some pedestrian slowly crossing the street not looking, my convention is three or four staccato panic honks which will usually get their attention
February 23rd, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Nancy, your world of etiquette seems a bit outdated, by definition true gender equality means the death of male/female chivalry. Of course individuals are totally free to practice whatever customs they like among their friends if they don’t harm others but to expect to exit an elevator first even if you are in the back is absurd. Let me ask you this. In a crowded elevator where there are 7 people separating you from the door (and they are all men) would u expect each one of them to step aside and allow you to exit first? I would assume the answer is certainly not because it isn’t practical nor efficient.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:51 pm
You’re right….my world of etiquette is probably outdated. Would I expect those men to allow me to step out first? The answer is yes….if they were brought up properly and taught manners and etiquette at a young age.
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Steve, been following your blog for a while, generally find it interesting/on target. felt the need to comment here, though- your use of example (if 7 people are in an elevator, blah blah) is totally self-serving: anyone can come up with an extreme example to try and prove a point they are intending to make. I expect better from you. Overall, i agree with your views on etiquette here, but, in certain regards you seem separated from reality.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Nancy and Rich, I simply believe true equality between men and women. Most women I know would not want to be let out of an elevator first while potentially inconveniencing someone to specifically make that so. They would in fact find the notion that they need to be as insulting.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
You might think they would be insulted but I guarantee you that if in fact you opened a door for a woman or allowed her to exit an elevator before you, her thoughts about you would clearly be that you had good manners. That’s just the way it is no matter how outdated you think these mores to be.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:34 pm
And from a practical level- the “inconvenience” of allowing a woman to leave the elevator before you, in said example, might delay you a maximum of 10 seconds. Maximum. And if you would claim that 10 seconds of your time is worth acting like a brute, I feel sorry for you.
February 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Rich I think you are taking this a bit too far, no one is saying to act like a brute, I’m simply saying if I am next to the door it is silly to step aside because of the gender or the other person/people in the elevator. You say my example of 7 people is self-serving and extreme. While it’s true that it is an extreme example, I was making a point through hyperbole. Where do you draw the line. 5 men between the woman and the door? 3? The bottom line is efficiency outweighs ancient customs and there is nothing brutish about that. All of this dissent is making me wonder if you all would like to go back 100 years when women would surely be let off the elevator first but would not be allowed to vote.
February 23rd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
voting – letting someone walk out of an elevator- i see the similarity/relevance. oh well, to each his own opinion i suppose. anyway, GL with the poker. gonna have to take a break from your blog for a while.
February 23rd, 2009 at 7:38 pm
My advice is to always open the door for a woman or let her out of the elevator first. Not because I am a particularly chivalrous person, but that way you have a better vantage point to check out her badonkadonk:-)
February 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 pm
This is such an absurd discussion. Situation is key. In an elevator at an office or a department store you’ll probably leave the elevator first and think nothing of it just like the woman who waits in turn to exit the elevator will also think nothing of it. But if you’re at a college interview and the VP of admissions is a 50 yo woman you might make sure both to hold the door for her and let her out of the elevator first.
Different situations call for different levels of manners. Sometimes its just not relevant and nobody’s paying attention but you Nancy imo
February 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
I find it quite amusing about all the consternation about gender bias in elevators.
Agree with most of the rules.
A friend of mine was in a nearly empty theater and had a couple sit right behind him and then started talking loudly. He spoke with the management and they removed the offenders.
I especially agree that you should not hold up the elevator for most any reason except for the handicapped/blind individual. Women here in DC are generally aggressive and even if I am in the front part of the elevator to the right or left, when the elevator stops the women in the back expect you to stay put and will push their way out. That is why I hesitate for ½ second and then depart the elevator closest to the door first out.
Wish there was a way for people not to loudly talk on their cell phone in a bus or metro when there are others around. I need to get a cell phone just to have a counter conversation when this happens. So rude.
Disagree with Wally about the seats in a metro go to women when within 1-2 seconds. First come, first served with the only exception being elderly, handicapped individuals. Just because you are a woman you are entitled to a seat? Please.
February 25th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Nancy, a lot of women view your idea of etiquette to be patronizing and sexist. I agree with them. I still end up holding doors and offering to pay for dinner, because I like sex and most women still get hot and bothered by chivalry – but understand what’s going on.
Steve, I gotta disagree with your restaurant comment. Especially at fancier restaurants, you’re not paying for the food, you’re paying for the experience. If my girlfriend and I pay $150 for a meal, we’ll sit there as long as we damn well please. Any waiter that tries to rush us out is going to regret it.
While I agree with your movie theater comments, I don’t think you have a right to get too upset. The only reason to watch a movie in a movie theater is to experience it with other people. If you want to be able to pretend that you’re alone, rent a DVD. Now you can stream new movies to your computer before they’re even out of theaters.
March 1st, 2009 at 11:54 pm
Steve:
You left out the two most basic rules of elevator etiquette:
1. If you can take the stairs between floors, use them instead of the elevator. I work on the 5th floor of a 7 story low rise building. Getting from the ground floor (1) to 5 takes forever because everyone who works on 2 takes the elevator to go up and down from the ground, and half the employees in the building ride the elevator between floors. And to add insult to injury, the stairwell is right next to the elevator bank. And it’s a real stairwell — not a fire tower. The building was built before elevators, so the stairwell was designed to be easily walked — low grade and very wide.
2. Don’t talk on your cell phone in an elevator.
March 3rd, 2009 at 4:52 pm
I saw this and it reminded me of your post haha
http://www.realsimple.com/work-life/etiquette/everyday-etiquette-public-place-10000001077597/index.html
March 6th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
A man should always hold a door for a woman. period.