Aug 14
the tiiiiiiimes they are a changin
I first would like to sincerely apologize for not blogging in forever, lots of changes are happening right now and I’m going to write a megablog here to inform my loyal readers on the minutia of my life. First I want to talk a bit about my business school applications and results (and tilt a bit). Ever since I was little, I was always considered “smart” by those who society deemed qualified to evaluate such things. I was near the top of most of my classes, went to a good college (which was the sole one I applied to) and graduated with honors. I write this not to brag as I am far prouder of some other accomplishments that most people would consider very pedestrian (maybe I’ll write a future blog about those) but merely to explain that I am simply not used to academic rejection. With that in mind, excuse my frustration as I tell my B school application story.
I knew in the fall that I wanted to be in Philly or NYC for B school so I only applied to 4 schools, NYU Stern, Columbia, Wharton and Fordham GBA. From my preliminary research, there were 3 primary objective factors to getting into B school which were undergrad university/GPA, GMAT score and work experience. As far as test scores and GPA goes, I was right in the ballpark for a top school (which NYU, Wharton and Columbia all are), and as for work experience, well I had my work cut out for me with how to spin poker. I took great care on my applications to try to explain the difficulty of surviving 3 years in the poker world, making my moniker “stevesbets” into a marketable brand name, and writing a blog that gets thousands of hits.
I was granted interviews everywhere which was a great first step since many applicants are denied interviews, but at NYU, Wharton and Columbia that is as far as I got. Each rejection frustrated me more and more, particularly Wharton since I went to Penn undergrad and have strong emotional and tangible connections with the University. It also didn’t help that the very day I received word of my rejection I got a solicitation for money. As a result of this rejection I will NEVER give my undergrad alma mater a dime. My friend Luke (http://lukekim.blogspot.com) says that this stance is silly since the fund raising department has nothing to do with Wharton admissions. He has always been far more robotic and perhaps logical than me, and I cannot give them the same pardon that he would.
Anyway, Wharton offered what I think is an incredibly unique service: they were willing to have an admissions committee representative chat with me for 20 minutes about why i got rejected, of course I took them up on this. The woman came on the phone and I really wish I had recorded the conversation, I will paraphrase what she said to the best of my ability.
“Steven, So I’m looking at your application and you are obviously very bright. All your scores are great and you would be a great addition to our community. With that said, we were kind of grasping at straws with you, trying to find a reason to accept you and in the end we just couldn’t. You have done nothing professionally for 2+ years since college aside from play cards, you have shown zero teamwork, leadership, accountability to anyone except yourself or ties to the community.”
Now since this was a very kind service, I knew I couldn’t waste her time and mine defending myself, but I couldn’t help but ask if all those things were her way of paraphrasing that she wanted me to have a more standard job. Her response:
“Well a job may help, but frankly we are very open minded and we take people that do all sorts of interesting and obscure things. It’s just that you’ve shown no leadership, teamwork or accountability”
At this point I couldn’t resist but say one thing about my application since it directly contradicted what she was saying, I pointed out a very strong recommendation from someone who staked me who I won alot for (meaning someone who TRUSTED me with a large sum of money, had FAITH in my poker ability, who I was ACCOUNTABLE too and who had success with me). Her response:
“Well yes that’s true, but you still int eh past 2 years you have shown no teamwork, leadership and little accountability so that left us in a bind and we had to pass”
The conversation pretty much ended there and I thanked her for her time. The thing that really bugged me about her commentary was her way of paraphrasing that they wanted me to have a “legitimate” business job and my lack of one was the reason for my rejection. I believe she chose not to say it that way because she didn’t want Wharton to come off as close minded. How could she say I haven’t shown leadership when I’ve supported myself all on my own for over 5 years now? How could she say I’ve shown no accountability when other people trust me with sums of money far greater than most people right out of college deal with? As for ties to the community, do most people who enter business school volunteer at a boys and girls club? I thought they were too busy working 100 hours a week to create community ties. End of rant.
Anyway, I got into Fordham and I am thrilled to be going to New York. My classes are in a great location right by Columbus Circle and I look forward to making those other schools regret their decision. I was told by my Columbia interviewer that B schools want people that will be successful alumni who make tons of money so they can brag about them. That is the only way to make those schools regret their decision. I have to say it will be very strange to no longer be just a poker player, I have been doing it for a full three years and going back to school will be interesting, I am very excited for the opportunity.
To switch gears, it has been just a day and a month since the coke pepsi challenge (see an earlier blog for details). Since that day I have been running really hot at poker for pretty much the first time since last thanksgiving. I have been playing on average about 10 hours a day in that stretch of time, a number that will have to go drastically down once I move to NYC and start school. If you live in the city, feel free to drop me a line (by leaving a comment, i don’t always get the emails from the form on this blog since the spammers found it)
Now onto a couple random tilts before I wrap this blog up. I went to see the Dark Knight in IMAX a few days after it came out. It was my favorite movie ever and I”ll probably write a future blog about it, but for now I just need to tilt about parents who don’t control their kids. I think society needs MUCH harsher laws against people that disturb the peace.Repeatedly talking loudly in a movie theater full of people that paid money to be absorbed by the film is totally unacceptable. Little kids obviously cannot be held accountable, but their parents sure as hell should be. At batman, there was a family of 4 behind me with two little kids. They constantly screamed, talked loudly and kicked my seat throughout the movie. Their parents did little to nothing to make them behave better. If your kids cannot behave in a socially acceptable manner at a movie, don’t bring them! I honestly cannot FATHOM letting potential future kids of mine annoy a theater full of strangers without doing something. I think the parents should be fined the price of the tickets of everyone in the theater, that would stop such outrageous failure to act
One more tilt, then I’ll let u leave and go read another blog or do whatever else it is my readers do with their days. I cannot stand when waiters or waitresses do not write down my order then get it wrong. Do they think they are impressing me with their memories? I know their job is tough and they have to deal with many people so write it down. Far worse than that though is when they do not write it down, get it wrong, then protest when I say that it isn’t what I ordered, this sends me on the verge of insanity but I usually just politely say well I may have been mistaken but could you please replace it with what I want anyway. I am a very generous tipper especially when service is good. I think the range of tipping should be far wider. Most people tip 15-20% regardless of service. I am sometimes guilty of this myself, but I would far rather tip between 0 and 40% to truly reward servers who are exemplary and punish those who ignore, misquote or otherwise marginal me.
August 14th, 2008 at 4:13 am
I agree with many points in this post. So much so that I will create a post saying how much I agree with you.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:34 am
“…3 primary objective factors to getting into B school which were undergrad university/GPA, GMAT screw and work experience.”
how was your gmat screw, cow?
August 14th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Check out NY Cares. There are plenty of volunteer opportunities there :-) See you in the city cuz!
August 14th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Great blog cow, I agree with almost all of your points. Enjoy NYC, I’ll come visit this winter.
August 14th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
I’ve heard B-schools are looking for real concrete evidence of future leadership in the business community. Similar to extracurriculars you listed when applying to college, they’re looking for you to have started a significant business or NGO, or done something on par with that.
August 14th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
“How could she say I haven’t shown leadership when I’ve supported myself all on my own for over 5 years now?”
Leadership implies leading a group of people. Your resume shows that you work extremely well independently, but says nothing about your ability to be in charge of a group of people.
“How could she say I’ve shown no accountability when other people trust me with sums of money far greater than most people right out of college deal with?”
People staked you because you were considered a good investment. Being staked at most has something to do with trust — trust that you won’t take the money and run. Accountability is a much broader concept than trusting someone will fulfill their end of a bargin.
“As for ties to the community, do most people who enter business school volunteer at a boys and girls club? I thought they were too busy working 100 hours a week to create community ties. End of rant.”
Business school, like any other type of school, gives extra points to applicants who are well rounded. If you had volunteered 5 hours a week some where for the last year, this wouldn’t have been an issue.
August 15th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
you can tip whatever u want. f society if they dont agree. if u get awful service tip 5%, if its great tip 40%. why are u letting society’s bs standards to control what u do and then rant about it?
August 18th, 2008 at 11:58 am
An interesting blog.
I was at Wharton and one of the things that got me onto the MBA programme (class of 2000) was my background in professional gambling. My background was mainly in European sports betting but I played some poker at a reasonable level (pre Internet era though…) and I was later told by the admissions departmetn that it has been a positive aspect of my application. So, I honestly don’t think that the school is anti-gambling (check out some of the research done by Justin Wolfers, one of the professors at Wharton, on the predictive value of gaming markets).
I don’t know what your GMAT is like but it is now tough to get into Wharton with a score below 740. They have about seven times (I think) more applications at a 740+ score than they have places, which means they then have to choose among those applicants. There is a huge emphasis on teamwork throughout the course and I suspect your application did not show either evidence of your previous success in teamwork (which you might not have) OR your commitment to teamwork in the future (which I am sure you could have found a way to bluff).
The truth is that most people who know nothing about poker think that poker players are selfish, ruthless, self centered individuals and that most people who spend a lot of time in the poker world find out that those impressions – in about 90% of cases – are based in truth. To be a good poker player does, I am afraid, mean that you have to exhibit most of these character traits. Perhaps you are different and just failed to get this across on the application forms?
I realize you want to get on a MBA programme as quickly as possible but you might want to have a think about re-applying next year rather than going to Fordham. Stern, Columbia and Wharton are in a different league to Fordham and it will make a major difference to your post MBA career. There will be a lot of firms (eg Goldman Sachs, Mckinsey) who won’t look beyond the top six or seven schools (may not even look at Stern). 27 in the Business Week rankings is just too low to get a really good job out of school and that’s the whole point of doing a MBA. The value of the MBA school’s brand will last with you throughout your career and, if you want to be a successful businessman, I would suggest you try and get into a bigger school, as you definitely believe you are bright enough to. A year extra waiting (and improving your resume) is not a big deal at your age.
Incidentally, I have gone back into the gaming business in the UK where no one knows what Wharton is and don’t value the brand at all. It’s a great school but I would not defend it just because I went there. I’d offer the same advice about Harvard, Stanford, Chicago etc etc.
Good luck,
Joe
August 19th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
” If your kids cannot behave in a socially acceptable manner at a movie, don’t bring them! ”
With you as the sole arbiter as to what is socially acceptable?
If you go see a documentary about the Holocaust, there won’t be any little kids and the theatre will be hushed from start to finish.
If you go see Shrek III at 1 in the afternoon on opening weekend, only an idiot would expect a quiet theatre, and it’s assumed there will be a ton of kids shouting and yelling and laughing from beginning to end.
Now, Dark Knight falls somewhere in the middle. It’s supposed to be a more adult movie, but it’s also about Batman. What you should expect is some cheering and some talking in the theatre, and depending upon your neighbourhood, perhaps a lot of cheering and talking.
The way you avoid huge crowds is you don’t go opening weekend. The way you avoid little kids is you go to showing that start later than 9 PM, or if it’s during school and you want to avoid teenagers, go after 8 on a school night.
August 19th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
I couldn’t disagree more with this last comment on the whole. Yes it’s true that one should take those steps to avoid rude talking, but they should not be necessary in a civilized society. I am not the sole arbiter of what is allowed in movies. Talking is against the “rules” of pretty much every movie theater across the country. The fact that little kids and inconsiderate people routinely break these rules does not make it ok, hence the tilt. Society will fall apart if we accept unacceptable behavior merely because we assume it will happen. If kids are not old enough to obey the rules of a place, they are PROBABLY miserable in that place anyway, and a responsible parent should take them somewhere they can better fit in. I swear on my life if I am ever responsible for children, they will behave appropriately at whatever venue we choose or I will go do something else with them that they enjoy more. “only an idiot” would do otherwise.
August 19th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
You’re using words like “unacceptable” and “appropriately”. What’s unacceptable and inappropriate in some places and some cultures is completely acceptable in others.
Kids movies have different standards as far as making noise during the show. As do comic book movies. No, there’s not a preview clip before the movie starts that tells you so, but it’s a clearly established social norm in this country. During comic book movies people cheer when the hero triumphes over the villain. In kids movies, kids laugh at almost everything.
Whatever. Your mind is made up at the moment – my guess is you’ll have a more nuanced view in a couple decades. Perhaps not – then again, that stealthmunk dude also believes he’ll never feel differently as well.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Couple other points:
- As far as kicking your seat, that’s different. Did you say anything to the parents?
- My “only an idiot” comment was specific. Do you disagree? Would you care to make a side bet, where I will choose a kid’s movie and a venue and showtime on opening weekend, and I will give you 100-1 odds that at some point in the movie, there will be laughing and yelling?
August 19th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
I don’t disagree that kids would be making noise, I totally disagree with whether it’s acceptable and I guarantee that no kids that I am responsible for will ever ruin movies for other people. I also totally disagree with any comparison to stealthmunk
August 19th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
anyone who saw dark night and thinks that it is “somewhere in the middle” of a kid movie and an adult movie is clearly completely insane, and should be completely disregarded. it is easily one of the most adult movies i’ve ever seen–violent, sadistic, (awesome). any parent who would let their 10-year-old see that movie should immediately have that child taken away from them.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:58 am
I saw Dark Night, and it’s not a little kid’s movie. However, it’s a comic book movie, and it’s definitely in the middle when it comes to “movies that people are likely to talk during”.
I’m not arguing that it’s OK to talk during movies. I’m saying that Steve’s reaction is way out of whack with how much of a social crime it actually is. I’ve heard a lot of childless people talk about what they’d do if they had kids, and then not actually feeling the same way once they really do have kids.
I do have kids. I personally wouldn’t take my kids to Dark Knight (mine are 7 and 3 right now), but I’ve taken them to kids movies and it’s very well understood that when you go to Ice Age 2 that kids are going to talk. A better example might be Wall-E, which appealed to both adults and children. My kids didn’t talk, but other people’s kids did, especially when they were confused (”Why is that happening Mommy?”) and it really doesn’t bother me – I understand it comes with the territory, and I would have gone to a late showing if I wanted to avoid that issue.
Steve wrote:
“Society will fall apart if we accept unacceptable behavior merely because we assume it will happen.”
My opinion is that kids talking during movies is not what is destroying society.
Tell you what. Don’t argue with me. Instead, show your post and your comments to your mom, and ask her if she agrees, or if she thinks that perhaps you’re taking it a bit too hard. I’m interested in what her response is.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
how did no one respond to Joe SS’s post, the only relevant/worthwhile post having to do with the business school topic? sidenote, Joe SS, get me a job please
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I have to agree with Steve here because of what our society just accepts as “norms” now a days. Little kids laughing during a funny part of a KIDS movie is acceptable, but parents should have their kids disciplined enough that if the kids do have questions about the movie, they should know that it is RESPECTFUL to ask quietly, in order to not bother other movie go-ers. With movie prices as high as they are now, a night at the movies with you and your girlfriend can cost about $45 with passes and food. Now, im not a high stakes poker player, so to me, that is somewhat high for a night at the movies. Im sure im not the only one that can say that paying that much money should result in a fun/undisturbed night at the movies, and if its not due to misbehaved kids, then yes the parents should be fined or kicked out. Parents not taking responsiblity for their childrens behavior could rank as my number one pet peeve….thanks for agreeing!! Good Luck