Nov 10
Foxwoods, midterms, reality shows and reality
I went to Foxwoods last week with high hopes, returning to the venue where I first went deep in a WPT event (10th place in 2005 in a mega field of over 800). Back then, I met many players who I had played countless heads-up matches against online. These included Alex “Yahtzem” Jacobs and Nick “TheTakeover” Schulman. Nick went on to win the event for over 2 million and Alex has had astounding tournament results since then. I find it amusing when I reminisce just how many matches I played against these two young pros who really I can’t possibly have much edge on.
Anyway, the first thing that I remembered upon arriving was what a miserable place Foxwoods is to stay at. There is a long long walk from the hotel to the poker room, its in the middle of nowhere and it feels like you’re marooned in some sort of awful resort. The second thing I noticed was that poker really is dying. The night before the tournament the biggest game was 75 150 and the tournament turned out to be only about 400 players.
Onto my day 1. We started out with 30k in chips. My table was mostly young pros who all knew what they were doing whcih is never a positive sight on day 1 of a tournament. There was an interesting hand at first between the man to my right in seat 1 and someone named Jason Potter (he told me I could use his name even though he knew that the story wouldn’t put him in the best light). Potter was clearly someone who had been around the tournament circuit and knew what he was doing and all about proper etiquette. In one hand, Seat 1 raised to 1200, someone else called and Potter reraised to something like 6k from the small blind (very big reraise this early in the tournament). Seat 1 called and the other guy folded. The flop came Kd 4d 2d and Potter bet out small (something like 5k) and Seat 1 Called. The turn was the 7h and Potter bet out 8k and Seat 1 instantly moved in (Potter had about 15k more and Seat 1 had him slightly covered). Potter exhaled and exclaimed to himself the moment Seat 1 moved all in “damn did u really hit the nut flush…just calling the flop…taking one off…u have to think i have kk…wow…etc etc laboring the decision for what had to be 3 or 4 minutes. My personal opinion on calling the clock and the amount of time people take during live poker I’ll blog about another time, but since it was a big decision, people let him take his time. Seat 1 peaked at his cards and I caught a glimpse of Ad Kc. To me this seemed well ahead of Potter’s range given that he was thinking for so long about calling his last 15k into a 60k+ pot. Finally he called and turned over 6d 9d which held up. The fact that he would reraise this to steal preflop is not really that big a deal, but to even contemplate folding it after reraisign 20% of his stack preflop and FLOPPING A FLUSH is beyond absurd. Someone yelled out “slowroll alert” followed by a quick “just kidding” and Potter shook his head, exclaimed how he would never do that and how he really wasn’t sure. I couldn’t help but speak up and say that there was no way he was folding his hand and I was going to blog about it. It’s worthy of note here that I found Potter to be an affable guy and I hold no ill will towards him whatsoever and the following analysis is based purely on his actions.
A player as accoplished as Jason Potter is (I looked him up on cardplayer), knows about relative hand values, knows about odds and knows about slowrolling. The amount of time he took is absolutely positively unaccpetable. Live poker is totally ruined by players taking far more time than they should for god knows why. Maybe they enjoy being the center of the table’s attention, I don’t know, but in a case like this, Potter had to either know he was almost certainly ahead and clearly had odds to call in which case it was a malicious slowroll or he didn’t and really needed to consider that there may be a greater than 4 to 1 chance that Seat 1 flopped a higher flush after calling 6k preflop. Potter’s likeable persona means the first option is probably not the case and his poker knowledge indicates that the second option is not the case as surely only a TOTAL POKER NOVICE or out and out dunce would need to think more than a nanosecond before making that call. This leads me to the third utterly nonsensical option that I’m convinced is true. People like to seem smart and therefore they like to pretend to think. They usually have their decision made up right away, we all play by our knowledge and our gut. By pretending to think, if by chance our opponents hand is at the very top of their possible range and they are ahead of us, we save face by thinking long showing that “I might have folded”. I find this pretend thinking really annoying and out and out bad for poker. There really needs to be penalties for when Potter and everyone else do things like that.
Now onto my hand. I was up to 55k in chips which was certainly well above average as the tournament was still in it’s infancy. Potter was running really hot and had over 100k and was most likely the chip leader of the room. I have TT in middle position and raise to 700, everyone folds to Potter in the BB who calls. Flop is Qd Th 2d and Potter check raises me. I had 3bet bluffed him on a flop before so I decided to 3 bet right there which he quickly 4 bet huge. I was counting the chips in my head as I went all in but after he snapcalled and turned up qq all in one motion i felt punched in the gut and headed for the doors. I quickly cancelled the rest of my reservation and left foxwoods, it felt good to get home.
My midterms just finished up last week, it’s very strange being a student again and having a “busy season”. For the people that have my freeroll, you are not looking too good on the academic front but you certainly have a chance on the fitness end as it seems like I may struggle to reach my goals. (If you don’t know about the freeroll see here). So midterms went well, although I haven’t gotten my management one back yet, and if you see my old blog about my classes, my first impression of that teacher was correct. She is so unorganized and loopy that it is truly amazing she teaches at a Business school. The test included 50 multiple choice quesitons all about various management theories that aside from being worthless memorization, wasn’t at all in the spirit of the class. It is not surprising that her test does not follow her teaching style though since that very style is wacky, clueless and out of touch. The fact that I am paying $3000 for that class really irks me.
On a different note, I am not afraid to admit that I really like some of the reality shows on TV. I watch American Idol, Survivor, Real World and even some of the less popular ones like The Pick Up Artist and Beauty and the Geek. I only have one thing to say about these shows for the purposes of the blog and that is that I REALLY don’t understand how everyone is so weepy (across all reality shows it seems). They all cry so much, sometimes over the most mundane things. The best example of this is on Survivor when they get “letters from home”. A letter from the loved ones of the castaways almost always brings them to tears, and heroic words about how they “are going through it all for them”. Whenever I see that I want to yell at the screen, “you’ve been away from them and on the island for 11 freaking days!!”. Missing people is fine and natural, but to be moved to the point of tears because you’ve been away shooting a popular tv show for a couple weeks is ridiculous.
I know this blog entry is long and I appreciate those of you that made it to the end. Here I’ll make my political comment for the day (really just a funny daily show quote). For those of you who don’t know, proposition 8 passed narrowly in California making same sex marriage unconstitutional. The passage of this proposition was largely attributed to the very high turnout of black (christian) voters energized by Obama. Jon Stewart pointed out the irony, “We finally have a black president, yay! equal rights!! but wait…gay marraige…we can’t stand for that…waaaatch out, the oppressees have become the opressors”. I’ll let his quote speak for itself. Have a good Monday!
November 10th, 2008 at 7:46 am
I think Jason posts as JP osu on 2p2, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone posts about this in the forum and maybe we can see what his rebuttal is. I’m also a big fan of survivor, I like Ken by far the most.
While it is true that there was a correlation between Black voters and voting yes on Prop 8, there was a much higher correlation between christian voters (black and white) and voting yes, and also an even higher correlation between white christian voters and voting yes. So while it can be argued that a connection exists b/w race and prop8, I think it is much more useful to look at prop 8 through a religious rather than racial lens.
November 10th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Haha. Good quote. Impressive on the midterms, but I’m ready to be impressed on the fitness end too! Lets go C-O-W!
November 10th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
i thought you were going to blog about the old woman at the movie theater :(
DUKES
November 10th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
i mean, it’s someone’s religion…you can’t argue with that. also, i find it immeasurably hard to believe that a person could watch Survivor and like Kenny the best.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:31 am
OMFG, this thing is tilting me so hard. I have typed out responses twice and somehow erased them…
Basically the gist is that your reporting of the hand is nowhere near accurate.
I limped UTG, 1 more limper, Seat 1 raises to 800, LP calls, I call, Limper calls… Flop K42ddd, checks to Seat 1 who bets 1100, LP calls, I make it 4850 and seat 1 calls…
Turn 7h, I bet 7450 and he shoves instantly for 30k total effective…
I agree that if the hand had gone down as you described that if would have in fact been a slowroll.
Just know that I play a ton of live poker and absolutely hate people that do this, and it is rampant. I am usually the one at the table pointing it out and criticizing other players for doing so.
It was fun playing with you and GL in the future.
November 12th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Hey Jason, I appreciate you chiming in and I believe most of what you say about usually being against it since you seem like a really good guy. While I am not certain about the exact numbers, I am fairly certain you reraised big preflop.There is a chance I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure, I’d love for someone else from the table to drop in. Thanks again for giving your opinion here, keep reading!
November 12th, 2008 at 12:59 am
I mean, I dunno what to say, you were not in the hand and had your headphones on… It would have been very easy for you to misinterpret the action… I am 100% certain of the action and have no reason to lie about it. Furthermore, I would pretty much never be reraising huge OOP with 69s, it’s just not something I would do. If you remember the rest of the day I pretty much did not 3bet pf once, not even with QQ against you.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:03 am
Fair enough, I’ll take you at your word, my commentary still stands but it does change it a bit.
November 13th, 2008 at 1:04 am
LMAO reading the recap of the hand. I was seat 1, and both of u guys made my blog on pokerlistings as well. Other then maybe having the exact cards on the flop or the exact amounts of the bets JP told the hand the right way. He did limp, I raised late one of the blinds called and he called. That being said, hopefully the next time we all see each other will be a little later in a tournament than day 1. SICK table draw IMO
November 14th, 2008 at 12:56 am
typical cow gettin the hand totally wrong
November 14th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Tough Break on the QQ v 1010 hand. Like you said about making decisions, Sometimes you just have to go broke. I do agree poker is defenetly dying, moresoever then people even realize. It seems almsost disrepectful that people are playing 2000-4000 online or having million dollar swings playing NLH. In the state on the economy and the mind set of people, it’s a spit in the face. Poker has lost its glamour for sure. While some idiot railbirds enjoy begging and getting ignored, I think the problem lies in the people. Who cares how bad Gus is, Who cares how durrrr got it in with 25% preflop and won a 300k pot. Lotta broke sour people out there and mark my words, While its great to go on rushes online, if you dont have emmassed anough money by now its like chasing a dream and it wont happen. I say if they lowered the stakes and made 500-1000 limit be the biggest game, for sure the poker economy online would pick up. Everyone wants to play omaha with Phil Ivey and Gus and DB, but if i could afford those stakes especially with the online variance I would not be playing poker.
November 15th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
what a retarded comment by Murat. not surprised though, but that’s neither here nor there. disrespectful, spit in the face? yea, people with big bankrolls should play below their comfort zone simply because other less fortunate people don’t have the ability to play so high and are losing jobs/money. good logic. i suppose doctors should start charging less for surgery, lawyers should lower their hourly rate, etc etc.
November 15th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I agree Murat, lower stakes would be good for poker. The “middle-class” players are getting squeezed out. It’s become too hard to make the jump from a low-stakes beginner to an aspiring pro. No way to drop the stakes though – if the sites currently offering 2k/4k dropped it, some new site would spring up to offer those stakes.
The biggest problem though is cheating. There’s no way to prevent sophisticated collusion, and no matter how good you are, there’s no way you’re EV positive at a 6 or 10-handed table against 3 decent players colluding.
Live poker is shrinking as well but for different reasons. People can fool themselves into thinking they have a chance for only so long. We had a poker bubble where everyone thought they could read supersystem and win a bracelet, but now reality is setting in.
November 15th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
In response to the Beast, It’s not about people having bigger bankrolls or Doctors charging less for a surgery. You really are an idiot dude. With live poker dying its either small limit online, occasionally you can find a spotty mid limit game, and then if you feel like gambling, you need a BR for 2-4k, Gimme a break. The point is the number of high limit people have declined and seeing Eli or Gus playing 200-400 or 500-1k for that matter doesn’t happen often enough. Believe me if Full Tilt had all these so called superstars playing in a real poker game, Not a game of 2-4k runway more people would deposit money and the 2-400 and 5-1000 games would be back and stronger than ever, Other than a few amazing people, these guys all built there Bankrolls stealing in essence huge, huge amounts of money from people like George the Greek, Andy Beal, Larry Flynt and others. I know for sure at 1 time Phil Ivey was staking the entire game except for Larry Flynt. Not to mention whatever else is not common knowledge to the average bear. The bottom line is other than Phil, Patrick and Abe Mosseri and a handful of other red pro’s who were discovered online, I have no doubt in my mind that poker and again I know this first hand is nothing but a pyramid scheme gone bonkers. Everyone speaks so highly of honor in poker. What an oxymoron that is. Trust me, when all the smoke clears all the money will be exactly where it is now and consider yourself blessed to be ignorant and clueless rather than burdened with endless knowledge of how who did what, why they did it, and what is happening next. I am ashamed of some things that I know but while be may care about the truth, Money talks and it is what it is and nothing is going to change that!
November 16th, 2008 at 12:08 am
we got some tilts
November 16th, 2008 at 9:00 am
No major disagreement with Murat, although I’d point out that poker hasn’t gotten less honorable. 30 years ago, every professional poker player was a cheat. Doyle, check. Slim, check. Today there are plenty of honest players. The problem is that people get cheated out of their money, or just plain lose it to better players, so much faster. Also, I’m not sure what Murat means by stealing from Beal and others. Are you saying Beal was cheated? He, and other whales know what they’re getting into. If I had a hundred million dollars, I’d probably take 500k and sit down with Ivey and crew knowing I was probably going to get eaten alive but willing to pay for the experience.
November 17th, 2008 at 1:02 am
can you provide evidence that doyle and slim were cheats?
November 17th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Evidence, LMAO Doyle and Slim were cheating b4 i was born. Wait, I know- we can use DNA samples from 30 years ago.
November 17th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
doyle is a upright citizen
November 18th, 2008 at 10:59 am
I do believe Doyle called it “hustling” not cheating.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Steve, I don’t mean to change the subject as there are plenty of comments about your latest blog. I would like to ask you a question about MR B 2 U SON AKA David Benyamine. What in the world do you think is going on? I know it’s hard to speculate. I find it not believable that he has signed with another website. If so, Who? Like you said Full Tilt is the holy grail, not to mention DB is super duper friendly with all the powers that be behind FT POKER. He lives in LV 85% of the year and I know for a fact that the last 2 months he has been staked by Eli Elezra. I cannot prove it but trust me its 100% fact. Starting his own site would be a bust and if that were the case we would have heard and his status getting yanked is a bit premature. DB while famous in the online world is relatively unknown in the mainstream poker world. What kind of deal can another site offer him that FT couldn’t trump? I know that Gus is the Highest paid player that is not an owner at 750k a year. People like Nick Shulman and JDags are close to 150k bottoming the paid pros. Some like cindy violette are just getting a few bucks a month and an hourly wage as sort of a prop. HMMM Lotta weird stuff going on in the world of online poker. Who was ever a red pro and then not only lost there status but forced to change screen names? I cant think of one. I think there is more than meets the eye. I would love any comment you can give in reply to this message. One more note! Did DB inform every high limit player that he had changed his name. Did everyone in the world that may take a shot at big PLO or NLH or HORSE etc…. given a memo in there email. If not, Then wouldn’t this be in essence a form of multiaccounting? Now that most people know who it really is I guess its not a big deal. But as I find out more information I will gladly report my findings to you. Please post this as I am looking for some outside opinions as well. TY and GL
November 20th, 2008 at 12:07 am
No input steve?
November 30th, 2008 at 12:58 am
is MR B 2 U SON really degenyamine?
December 1st, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Why won’t you comment on the Mr B 2 u son statement? Is it for political reasons?